Liz Cuneo: Hello, welcome to a prominent person in packaging interview. I am here with Ashim Moona, packaging engineer at Evergen, a world-class, global Contract Development and Manufacturing Organization, driven by a patient-first approach to innovation. So Ashim, thanks for joining me.
Ashim Moona: Thanks for having me here. I'm really excited to just talk about packaging.
Cuneo: Why don't we start by you telling me about your path into packaging engineering. What led you to specialize in medical device?
Moona: Well, while I was growing up, I always knew I wanted to be an engineer of some sort, I was even doing learning Autodesk inventor, 3D modeling, you know, in middle school, I developed a really big passion for spatial visualization and 3D modeling and all that stuff. So, I definitely wanted to do something in that avenue. And then, I attended two summer camps in hospitals, and so that actually helped open my eyes into the healthcare industry and careers and opportunities and, different ways to take advantage of helping to serve patients.
Fast forward to college, where I kind of narrowed down where I wanted to be an airspace engineer. Unfortunately, burnout kind of caught up to me, and I still remember it to this day where I felt really lost one day, you know, changing semesters and I heard about packaging systems and design, that's the degree at Virginia Tech, and I looked at the curriculum and it kind of resonated with me, as in like, I've already studied a lot of this, it's very similar to the engineering coursework, and so, you know, I took the leap. I was like, OK, this seems pretty cool. And then my first class, we actually looked at the packaging of just the soapbox. And the first task was to redesign it essentially in audio scat. And that's when I knew I was like, oh my gosh, my first class, I'm going back into actual 3D modeling and hitting that passion back up, so to speak, and continue the coursework there and turns out I really enjoyed it a lot. And so working through the coursework, I kind of found out that I could go back into the healthcare space, and so that's where it really connected the dots, came full circle and took a shot, interviewed here, and I got the job and it's the rest is history.
Cuneo: That's great, and how long have you been with the company?
Moona: I've been here over 3 years.
Cuneo: It sounds like it's a good fit, the med device industry. You get to do engineering, which is great. It's great to have that passion from a young age.
Moona: Yeah, absolutely.
Cuneo: So last time we spoke, you mentioned you were involved in new product development and R&D at Evergen. So, what does that look like day to day?
Moona: I work with multiple functions, mainly R&D engineers, to understand the packaging design requirements, mainly based off of the product, quality, and also regulatory requirements. That involves mainly frequent meetings week to week to measure progress, depending on which stage it's at and the NPD process. And just understanding, OK, what are some iterations from the product standpoint that can impact the packaging design, then, once the product is well fleshed out, when you've gone from the feasibility standpoint to where can we actually develop this process of packaging not only for the product. So it involves multiple different conversations, hands in a lot of different places, checking off a lot of boxes that is required for, you know, ISO 11607-1 and 2. You know, the whole NPD process actually helps create a more sustainable packaging process, and design, really, so I know that covers a bit more than just the day to day, but yeah, it's pretty cool.
Cuneo: And you work with a lot of different teams within the company?
Moona: Yeah, absolutely. Quality, regulatory, R&D. I'm the packaging engineer on the operations engineering team, so I actually work with other members of my team on the same products, so to speak, to develop the packaging design and process as well.
Cuneo: OK, awesome. You get to do the 3D modeling that we talked about already?
Moona: My job is actually mainly to source the packaging, so, for example, we would send out the products, dimensions, and specifications to a company like Print, and then they would kind of develop the 3D model, you know, tray, to fit around the product. The fact that I can still see those 3D models come my way, understand it, you know, dissect it, and because I've run through that, it's really helpful.
Cuneo: You had the experience and understanding, so that's always a good thing. Let's talk about any kind of challenge that you've run into. Do you have an example of a challenging project that you worked on in your career and a lesson maybe you learned from it?
Moona: Yeah, so, one project is kind of like a continuous teacher is qualifying an additional pouch supplier and many companies have had to do this mainly because of the supply chain issues that we've seen from COVID. That was a huge challenge for a lot of companies and especially for me, given that it was a huge project and that was when I kind of first started here, and scoping that project was massive. Hitting all the requirements by 11607 was a huge challenge to even like, OK, where do we even go? Luckily, you know, that's a challenge that, you know, everyone has gone through and so asking a lot of questions actually helped me to understand some of this stuff has already been accomplished, especially when it comes to post-market packaging. And so it has become a long-lasting evergreen teacher for me essentially for learning 11607-1 and 2 to make sure like, hey, this can be applied anywhere, everywhere, it has to be applied more to speak. And when it comes to smaller tasks, other projects, that one project, that one challenge has helped me to kind of be a bit more adept in applying, not just learning, but applying 11607 and its principles.
Cuneo: That's great. So you had that challenge, and it sounds like you're continuously learning from it, so that's a good thing.
Moona: Yeah, absolutely.
Cuneo: So, let's kind of switch gears to sustainability. Is it a big consideration in your work and in product development at the company?
Moona: Very, very important. I see sustainability as two facets. One is, you know, your typical green sustainability, your recyclability, your circular economy, that is super important to keep in mind when you're designing secondary and tertiary packaging, which, you know, I am actively working on a day-to-day basis. examples like RAPAC, molded pulp, can aid in, in reducing your shock and vibration impacts, and that's, you know, just your fundamental or it should be fundamental, takeaways from whenever you're doing packaging work, even in your studies, so it's super duper important to make sure like, hey, this is curbside recyclable, at least on a tertiary level. I know, you know, with the stringency on health care packaging, that's not accomplishable very much so in the primary packaging, especially when it comes to, you know, aseptically presenting it. And that kind of brings me to my second facet of sustainability, which is your process sustainability, and that definitely involves the new product development, and so if you're able to have the, the control of the design, through from the get-go all the way through to mass manufacturing, that really helps, you know, operations engineering and manufacturing engineers to sustain it and even improve upon the packaging process. it work it works hand in hand and that's like the main takeaway from 11607. That's how it's kind of like built as I interpreted.
Cuneo: OK.
Moona: Yeah, so I think, I think process sustainability is also a huge consideration and huge factor that needs to be, you know, inherent to the packaging design, cause you need to have, you know, your trays, for example, have the proper tolerance to fit the product in and you don't want to have anything too tight to where an operator can't fit the product in and it's too inconsistent and the list can go on and on.
Cuneo: I understand it's really a balance of trying to create something sustainable, but user friendly, right, of course, following regulations. There's a lot to consider when we talk about my device packaging or, you know, secondary form of packaging, that kind of stuff, so kind of segueing away from sustainability, but also like how does patient care factor into the package development?
Moona: You know, we talked about usability, sustainability. I mean, these have to be usable for sure. Yeah, so it's the patient care is the biggestwhy, why the standards are created, why companies are certified, is to reduce patient risk and make sure that the patients are the utmost priority, so the patient care needs to be, you know, it has to be inherent to every single step along the packaging development process If not, you're going to run into clear issues at the end user step. And that could essentially lose your business and, you know, lose credibility, and you don't want that.
So it cannot be understated how important patient care is and innovation also plays a part in that. And one example that I see is adhesive coating on pouches, on the Tyvek. Which helps one reduce fiber tears on the Tyvek and two, actually can help reduce noise, you know, when being presented aseptically and then the patient could hear it and maybe increasing like reduce anxiety actually, and so that's just, you know, one example of, of industrial innovation that's like, whoa, actually that's That's pretty cool.
Cuneo: Yeah, that's interesting that it would be to have that other effect of, you know, maybe it's better performance, but then we talked about reducing anxiety by eliminating some of that noise. It’s interesting to consider. I was going to ask you about innovation…is that the biggest innovation maybe you see in medical device in the next decade?
Moona: I mean, that's one innovation that's been accomplished very successfully so far. More mechanically driven packaging design can be innovated upon, for example, I forget which company, but there was one, company that actually Put an insert into a pouch, a paper board insert into a pouch, that way it can keep the product stable and so it passed obviously your shipping handling and storage studies, but also it helped to activate the product and flush the products when before surgery, and so that not only reduced the carbon fuel emissions during transit, but also helped at the very end user stage when it came to presenting it to the patient. so, you know, checking so many boxes when it comes to innovation along the way is something that I do see, getting better and better over time. I mean, packaging lines are already getting way better. You know, machine learning is already working its way, AI is helping to speed up the decision-making process and increase productivity. And so, That's Things are already working its way to to get just getting better and better. And so, unfortunately, I've, like I said before, I've only been in this industry 3 years, but it's so exciting to see the potential that even from my observations I could bring to the NPD process or even just the packaging statement or improvement process.
Cuneo: Yeah, and let me ask you being kind of three years or so out of college, are they teaching a lot about AI, machine learning, data analytics… is that coming into more of the courses?
Moona: I kind of graduated right before AI took off, so to speak, but data analytics has been huge, and I learned quite a bit, throughout. I had one specific course back at Virginia Tech and it was all about like how to interpret data and how to interpret control charts, for example, and so that's been a bit more and more of an emphasis because that also it's connected with sustainability as well, your process sustainability.
Cuneo: Are you using some of these tools now in your current position?
Moona: Absolutely. I'm mainly using Power BI to visualize heat of your performance and make key decisions based off of the trends that I'm seeing. That's just an example that I use day to day. A far as AI goes or machine learning goes, I haven't been able to use it in production, and which is OK, mainly because AI still needs to be way more polished and everything. So, it's mainly used in my case, just to kind of slightly help reconsider some of the decisions that I've made, kind of like a validation check almost. And if I'm ever confused on, like, if I have a question, you know, it helps me narrow out actually some things that I don't know, which is 80% of the battle. And so it may be able to give some guidance based off of the summaries that it gives, and I still have to vet it as one should, but it does help provide some sort of clarity on what to investigate, for example. So it's a good tool, and I definitely see it getting better and better over time.
Cuneo: Yeah, well, the more we use it and the better we get at prompts, you know, at its learnings and so it should improve for everyone, which is interesting.
Moona: Yeah.
Cuneo: What role do you think packaging will play in enhancing patient safety and user experience in the future?
Moona: Yeah, so, kind of piggybacking off the point earlier, you know, about patient care, packaging already plays such a crucial role in patient safety and user experience. I mean, that's why we have the standards that we have. That's why we have the regulatory input that we have, to make sure that patient safety is the utmost priority. We never ever want a product to reach the end user that’s not its final form or not its intended way to be presented, if that makes sense. So, that's exactly why we have shipping, handling and storage testing. We want to make sure that it is part of the product, it is considered part of the product, so you got to make sure that it maintains the shelf life, it maintains the integrity of the product, So, I mean, again, it's inherent to the entirety of the design process for packaging.
Cuneo: Yeah, totally. So, coming toward the end of our interview, do you have any advice that you would give to young engineers interested in entering the medical packaging field?
Moona: Yeah, absolutely, in my limited experience, you know, I could give a couple points here and there. First, know that careers aren't linear. That's one of the first things that I learned, whenever I felt lost and just completely discouraged whenever, you know, I was burnt out and I had to change majors. Sometimes it's kind of a good thing, you know, if you're burnt out, it's like, OK, that's maybe not working out. Always take breaks, find your passion and let it drive you. I always kind of tell myself sometimes when things get a little challenging, it's like, OK, I do have a passion for this, and I really wanna strive for excellence, not just success.
So, you know, understanding things that I do is utmost priority, and that, you know, takes me to like Understanding the ISA and ASTM standards, for example, 3A and D 4169 for ASTM.
Those are integral. Everyone has to follow those standards. So if you're adept with it, no one can really say otherwise, because you're already one step ahead. Obviously your ISO 11607-1 and 2, those are huge, and I know it's like it's sometimes it can be like a monotonous read, but at least reading and somewhat understanding and comprehending it can put you one step ahead. And if you truly have a passion for the med device or healthcare packaging. Reading those standards, it's a must- you're gonna have to do it either the easy way or the hard way, Yeah, so, I mean, ask questions as much as you can, you know, the people around you are here to help and vice versa. Work on some of the weaknesses that you may see, and just keep moving forward.
Cuneo: Yeah, that's great. Well, wonderful, thank you, Ashim, for your time today.
Moona: Yeah, absolutely.
